Lumen Technologies, Inc. (LUMN) Q4 2025 Earnings Call Transcript
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Overview
The earnings call reveals a decline in revenue, negative free cash flow, and missed financial expectations. Despite cost reductions and PCF deals, management's conservative guidance and lack of detailed financial clarity raise concerns. The Q&A session highlights uncertainties about future growth and financial pacing, contributing to a negative sentiment. Given the small market cap, these factors are likely to lead to a more pronounced negative market reaction.
Key Financial Performance
Total Debt Reduced to less than $13 billion, with a net leverage below 4x. This was achieved through the use of $4.8 billion in net proceeds from the AT&T transaction and cash on hand to pay off super priority bonds and second lien debt. This reduced interest expense by roughly $500 million or nearly 45% year-over-year.
Annual CapEx Reduced by over $1 billion year-over-year due to the divestiture of the fiber-to-the-home business and a shift in focus to building a digital network services company.
EBITDA At the high end of the guidance range for 2025, despite the RDOF giveback in Q2. Adjusted EBITDA for Q4 2025 was $767 million, down from $1.052 billion in Q4 2024, primarily due to expected revenue trends, increased healthcare costs, and cloud migration costs.
Free Cash Flow Negative $765 million for Q4 2025, impacted by a delayed $400 million tax refund now expected in the first half of 2026.
Revenue Total revenue for Q4 2025 declined 8.7% year-over-year to $3.041 billion. Business segment revenue declined 8.8%, and Mass Markets segment revenue declined 7.9%. The decline was influenced by onetime dark fiber and elevated public sector harvest revenue in Q4 2024.
Cost Reduction Achieved over $400 million in run rate savings for 2025, exceeding the target. Targeting an additional $300 million in cost reductions for 2026, aiming for a total of $1 billion in run rate savings by 2027.
PCF Deals Signed nearly $13 billion in PCF deals by the end of 2025, with $4.5 billion signed in the last 12 months. These deals provide cash to strengthen the balance sheet and invest in growth.
North American Enterprise Revenue 52% of revenue now comes from growth products, up from the mid-40% range in 2024, reflecting an improved revenue mix.
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Operating Highlights
AI Network Strategy: Lumen is focusing on becoming the trusted network for AI, emphasizing its role in Cloud 2.0 and AI-first world.
NaaS Business Growth: Strong growth in NaaS business with a 31% increase in fabric ports deployed and 26% growth in services sold.
PCF Sales: Achieved nearly $13 billion in PCF deals, surpassing the $12 billion target.
Market Expansion: Expanded network to 17 million intercity fiber miles in 2025, with plans to reach 58 million fiber miles by 2031.
Partnerships: Signed 16 connected ecosystem partnerships, yielding over 180 sales opportunities.
Debt Reduction: Reduced total debt to under $13 billion, cutting annual interest expenses by $500 million.
Cost Savings: Achieved $400 million in run rate savings in 2025, targeting $700 million by 2026 and $1 billion by 2027.
Revenue Mix Improvement: 52% of North American enterprise revenue now comes from growth products, up from mid-40% in 2024.
Divestiture: Completed sale of fiber-to-the-home business to AT&T for $5.75 billion, reducing annual CapEx by over $1 billion.
Strategic Focus: Pivoted to an enterprise-focused technology infrastructure company, emphasizing digital network services.
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Risk or Challenges
Debt and Financial Leverage: Despite significant debt reduction, the company still has $13 billion in debt, which could pose risks if market conditions worsen or if cash flow projections are not met.
Revenue Decline: Total revenue declined by 8.7% year-over-year, with business segment revenue down 8.8% and mass markets segment revenue down 7.9%, indicating ongoing challenges in stabilizing revenue streams.
Legacy Revenue Decline: The company is actively managing legacy revenues for cash, but these continue to decline, which could impact overall financial performance if growth revenues do not scale as expected.
Capital Expenditure Reduction: The reduction in capital expenditures, while improving cash flow, may limit the company's ability to invest in future growth opportunities, particularly in competitive markets.
Execution Risks in Strategic Transformation: The company is undergoing a significant transformation to focus on AI and digital services, which involves complex operational changes and could face execution risks.
Market Competition: The shift to AI and digital services places the company in direct competition with established technology firms, which could impact market share and profitability.
Economic and Market Uncertainty: Broader economic uncertainties and market volatility could impact customer spending and the company's ability to achieve its financial targets.
Supply Chain Dependencies: The company’s reliance on partnerships, such as with Corning for fiber technology, could pose risks if supply chain disruptions occur.
Regulatory Risks: The company operates in a highly regulated industry, and changes in regulations could impact operations and financial performance.
Customer Adoption of New Services: While there is growth in NaaS and other digital services, customer adoption rates may not meet expectations, impacting revenue growth.
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Guidance & Outlook
Revenue Growth: The company expects business revenue to return to growth in 2028 and total revenue growth in 2029. North American enterprise revenue mix is improving, with growth products now comprising 52% of revenue.
Adjusted EBITDA: Adjusted EBITDA is expected to inflect to growth in 2026, with guidance in the range of $3.1 billion to $3.3 billion for the year.
Cost Reduction: The company targets an additional $300 million in cost reductions in 2026, aiming for a total of $1 billion in run-rate savings by the end of 2027.
Capital Expenditures: Capital expenditures are expected to range between $3.2 billion and $3.4 billion in 2026, with a significant portion allocated to PCF deals and core enterprise business.
Free Cash Flow: Free cash flow is projected to be between $1.2 billion and $1.4 billion in 2026.
Debt and Leverage: The company has reduced its total debt to under $13 billion, with a leverage ratio of 3.8x trailing 12 months adjusted EBITDA. Annual interest expense is expected to decrease by over $550 million in 2026.
Network Expansion: The company plans to expand its network to 58 million fiber miles by 2031, supported by $2.5 billion in new PCF deals signed in Q4 2025.
NaaS and Digital Growth: The company is focusing on growing its NaaS business, with active customers increasing by 29% quarter-over-quarter and NaaS fabric ports deployed growing by 31%.
Strategic Partnerships: The company has signed 16 connected ecosystem partnerships, yielding over 180 potential sales opportunities, and plans to expand its AI-ready network capabilities.
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Shareholder Return Plan
The selected topic was not discussed during the call.
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Key Q&A
Q:Can you share how the $2.5 billion PCF deals announced today compare to the first $1 billion, especially regarding margins and returns?
A:The structure of the $2.5 billion deals is similar to the first $1 billion as they are based on existing network conduit without new routes, resulting in a similar economic profile.
Q:Can you frame the timing of CapEx investments and cash receipts for these deals?
A:Details will be provided at Investor Day. However, the company has reduced capital intensity significantly, with $1 billion of the $3 billion CapEx for this year related to PCF, which is prefunded. The underlying capital intensity outside of PCF is about $2 billion, and the overall CapEx intensity profile is roughly half of last year.
Q:Why is there not upside to the 2028 business revenue growth guidance given the larger PCF TAM and accelerating NaaS digital adoption?
A:The company is being conservative due to the structural changes in the industry and the time required for market adoption. While the additional $2.5 billion PCF deals will impact revenue in 2028, it will take three years for routes to scale. The company is projecting linear growth in digital but acknowledges the potential for a J-curve adoption.
Q:Can you provide more color on bridging to '26 EBITDA and the pacing of EBITDA?
A:Details will be shared in an 8-K release. The company exited the year with higher cost savings than planned, and modernization spend is largely complete. The five-year model shows the company is fully funded without needing to borrow money, with excess cash to fund growth initiatives and reduce leverage.
Q:How much of the fiber being built is retained for the company's own purposes versus for customers?
A:The company breaks down fiber usage into hyperscaler connections, enterprise utilization, and available capacity for growth. By 2031, with 58 million miles of fiber installed, there will be more available for growth than in 2022.
Q:Have any PCF projects announced in August 2024 been completed, and is there any amortized PCF revenue running through the business?
A:Some projects are scaling, with $116 million in PCF revenue recognized last year, including $41 million in Q4. The builds take up to three years, and the company is on or ahead of delivery schedules.
Q:What is included in the new segment reporting between strategic and legacy, and what are the assumptions for strategic revenue growth and legacy revenue declines?
A:Strategic includes modern connectivity forms, while legacy includes declining product lines. The mix is expected to shift in favor of strategic, growing from 52%.
Q:What are you seeing with respect to gross sales for the remainder of the business and churn trends?
A:There is strong demand across connectivity solutions, with churn trends consistent and lower for NaaS offerings compared to traditional sales.
Q:What are you doing to avoid construction delays, and can customers delay acceptance of delivery for PCF projects?
A:The company leverages scale in supply chain and workforce, with favorable contracts and performance bonuses for faster delivery. Customers generally want faster delivery, and revenue is recognized upon lighting the fiber.
Q:Is the 2026 EBITDA guide range of $3.1 billion to $3.3 billion still growth versus 2025?
A:Yes, the range represents growth versus 2025, with the $3.5 billion prior guide including the consumer business, which contributed about $300 million in EBITDA.
Q:Review of Unclear Management Responses
A:Management avoided providing direct answers to specific financial details, such as the exact pacing of CapEx investments and cash receipts, detailed assumptions for strategic revenue growth and legacy declines, and precise working capital impacts of PCF cash inflows. They deferred these details to the upcoming Investor Day or future disclosures.
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Earnings Word Cloud
The most frequently occurring keywords in this quarter's earning call
AI race
ATT
AWS
Cloud
Investor Day
Microsoft
NaaS
adoption
capital intensity
capital investment
capital structure
cash hand
core enterprise
cost reduction
debt
detail Investor
divestiture
enterprise AI
fiber mile
flow capital
future
hand priority
harvest
impact
interest expense
investor
leverage
line expectation
mix enterprise
month PCF
network AI
priority bond
proceeds cash
revenue
solution
supply
tax refund
yesterday close
LUMN Transcript
Lumen Technologies, Inc. (LUMN) Q4 2025 Earnings Call Transcript
Unknown2-3
The earnings call reveals a decline in revenue, negative free cash flow, and missed financial expectations. Despite cost reductions and PCF deals, management's conservative guidance and lack of detailed financial clarity raise concerns. The Q&A session highlights uncertainties about future growth and financial pacing, contributing to a negative sentiment. Given the small market cap, these factors are likely to lead to a more pronounced negative market reaction.
Lumen Technologies, Inc. (LUMN) Q3 2025 Earnings Call Transcript
Positive10-31
The earnings call highlighted strong financial metrics, a strategic focus on growth areas like AI and NaaS, and positive adjustments in guidance, particularly for free cash flow and EBITDA. While there were some uncertainties in the Q&A regarding growth sustainability and M&A plans, the overall sentiment was positive due to revenue growth projections, debt refinancing benefits, and a strengthened balance sheet. Given the small-cap nature of the stock, these factors are likely to result in a positive stock price movement over the next two weeks.
Lumen Technologies, Inc. (LUMN) Presents At Goldman Sachs Communacopia + Technology Conference 2025 Transcript
Neutral9-10
Lumen Technologies, Inc. (LUMN) Presents At Citi's 2025 Global Technology, Media And Telecommunications Conference (Transcript)
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Frequently Asked Questions
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